If everyone is special.. then no one is..
I wouldnt trust anyone else enough to grant them powers. There would be no end to how bad the situation can be csrewed up. and as we know Heroes is all about the Villains
yes, arthur can paint the future. but unless he painted a picture of hiro and claire holding a calender with the exact time and date on, he couldn't know when they were....duh!!!
hampus Says:
December 11th, 2008 4:20 AM
So the Star Wars theme continues: Nathan who was a good guy has been turned over to the dark force. The Empire (which in the first two movies where the good guys) has turned evil and the heroes join the ex-bad guys since they where after all just opposing the good guys since they thought they where bad and so when the good guys turn bad the bad guys turn good. :-)
Even the useless character Jar-jar is there. Hiro is the fun guy who solves the case by luck or help and then he is tricked by the Villain once again.
Back to heroes:
Q1: what happened to Molly? Daycare? With Parkman moving about in the world and Mohinder working for Pinhearst? Maybe Pinehearst has a Day care center.
Q2: Elle being dead the future we saw can't happen since she was the mother of Sylars son?
Q3: Since no one "got/took" the catalyst when Arthur died, is it gone? or did Peter get all the powers? In that case he would have to be killed???
Rick Says:
December 10th, 2008 10:39 PM
I think what someone said about hero vs hero being more exciting is were we are now. Nathan has taken control of his fathers operations. You think Peter had a hard time pulling the trigger on his father... now it's Nathan in the crosshairs. Who will be willing to shoot him. He's a good guy.... right..? I think this is where the conflict was heading all along.
btw... Arther knew when and where Hero was going to get the catalyst because he can draw the future... duh.
plato Says:
December 10th, 2008 2:26 PM
good and evil are relitive concepts. osama bin ladden in his minds eye iam sure thinks he's a good guy and the west are the evil ones sure dosen't he believe god is on his side. george bush in his minds eye iam sure he thinks he's a good and the east are the evil ones sure dosen't he believe god is on his side.
the writers turned the concept around on a penny, they were brave enough to do it but the concept works with all conflict. iam from ireland, it's a constant in irish politics, the people who join the IRA are they terrorists or freedom fighters. the british army are they terroroists or peacekeepers. the answer depends on who ever is asking at the question at the time.
Ah, hell, I was just glad to see Sylar back as a badass. He had two classic lines in this episode:
"Oh, cake."
"It does kind of tingle..."
Pure genius!
britt Says:
December 10th, 2008 1:48 PM
i don't think giving injections that randomly select powers in a genetic lottery for the host is a good thing, especially for military personnel.
all reality of our world and our current involvement in a war aside, giving powers to trained killing machines is not a good idea. period.
also, isn't there a worry that they would go rogue once they have the taste of this power? if absolute power corrupts absolutely, and i firmly believe it does, people given powers will become greedy. not everyone is bad. it's just like our main characters: you have the good, the bad, the morally grey.
i don't think it's a question of "if these people can have powers why can't these other people?" hiro and peter have seen the future when people have powers, and it's not pretty. there is a lot of corruption. why? because there are many people in this world who are inherently bad, and there are many people in this world who may be good people now, but when given this sort of power, could easily turn due to their own greed.
rogue government agents could trade the formula to hostile nations for their own personal gain. would you really want the terrorists in darfur to have super powers?
also, most street drugs begin with science and experimentation. LSD, ecstacy, methamphetamine. the formula could become another street drug. criminals could dilute the formula and sell it to people on the street. sure, the effects would be shorter lasting, but the thrill would be in finding out if every time you took the formula, would you get a different power? that sort of power could become addictive.
or, hell, they could just start selling it black-market style and pretty soon everyone has powers, and the balance between good and evil would become nonexistent.
without some sort of "good" power or control, villainy and crime would rise exponentially. cops would be flipped so easily. if you pit a cop against a criminal, and both of them have powers, what's the point?
there would be infinitely higher rates of violence, death, and criminal activity.
you can't just give the powers to a select few. that's putting too much stock in human kind, especially in the fictional realm of HEROES. there's always corruption. you can't tell me they found a handful of marines - good men who would never possibly betray anyone or harm someone without cause. you can't predict how someone will change, or react, or even act in the future. unless you're the oracle in THE MATRIX.
however, hiro and peter have both jumped into the future and seen what will happen. no one can predict it in the HEROES present, but two characters can definitely see the outcome, and if that's not enough to warrant stopping pinehearst from doling out powers, i don't know what is.
i think most of these posts regarding the faults in HEROES have merit, but this one is a bit ridiculous.
Evan S. Says:
December 10th, 2008 1:27 PM
I'n gonna have to disagree with HeroesFanatic this time around. I don't see any "lack of continuity" with the heroes trying to stop the formula from leaking out.
Think how ****ed up this world is now, with all the dangerous, violent, and moronic people out there. Imagine a world where all of these people had abilities. There would be no world because chances are it would be destroyed or in ruin thanks to all the psychos running around with powers. And you actually think the heroes trying to prevent public power gaining is bad?
Besides, it was never shown any of them absolutely opposed the idea of anyone else having abilities. If they needed help and they found trustworthy people, I'm sure they'd like it if they had powers. But that's being selective, and being selective leads to arrogance, and arrogance leads to paranoia and greed, and the snowball just keeps on getting bigger with all the negatives qualities that would develop.
No, it's best that the heroes do stop this. Let nature (or whatever the hell gives these people their powers) dictate who gets them and who doesn't.
Maj Says:
December 10th, 2008 1:23 PM
I agree with Arthur. I honestly did not see how the future was going to be so bad. In the beginning of the season Future Peter is talking about preventing all of this: the concentration camps and crazyness...YET...When Present Peter and Future Peter go to the future..all you see are Business Men flying to work..and things ok...WTF was Future Peter talking about...the only thing that was so bad about that Future was Future Claire..They could have showed the concentration camps and chaos to give us a visual picture of what exactly was going to happen. So technically Arthur was not going to allow anything to happen. Present Peter really had to stop nothing. They somewhat showed this when Hiro went to the future and saw the chaos...but that scene had no significance other than Ando killing him.
OH GOD PLEASE LOSE THE TIME TRAVELING...!!!!!!!
first off. this is the worst thread you have ever put on this site. (if you tihnk this then you don't understande heroes!!!)
just one question, How did Arthur know where (and when) Hiro and Claire where????????
Beavis Says:
December 10th, 2008 11:26 AM
heh heh eh heh hehe heh heh
FIRE! FIRE!
Flint and Meredith are cool!
I.P. Freely Says:
December 10th, 2008 11:23 AM
Hey...its a TV show, and a good one. Just watch and enjoy! Stop complaining...
Ben Says:
December 10th, 2008 5:00 AM
A select few DO have abilities.
It has to stay that way though. The point is that all those people were never meant to have abilities. If they did, the eclipse would've given everyone them. A few were chosen for a reason. The same reason you said that marines would be a good idea.
Arthur Petrelli and Future Nathan both thought what they were doing was the right thing, but like Peter said...they were wrong.
Johnny Says:
December 10th, 2008 4:34 AM
Being new to this season of Heroes, i just caught up last weekend with eps 00 to 11 and i cant believe all the crap i am hearing.
This show is Great, Sylars trying to be good and just saying fuckit was fantastic. All the storylines coming to a central point was good writing, just wait till you see it this way on DVD, it was the best superhero megamovie ive seen this year.
Joel Says:
December 10th, 2008 3:11 AM
"Does anyone else feel like we've wasted the last three months of our lives watching a story line that never placed the world in danger?"
WTF? Does that also mean I wasted the last 3 months of my life tuning into this website? Get real, no one wasted any time, unless those who doesn't like to watch Heroes! Come on this season is great so far, unless for those brainless dogs who keep complaning that its too complicated-the storyline is dumb-tim kring is an idiot. Shut the hell up people, if you really do not like the storylines, just get the hell out and stop watching (not refering to this site, refering to those who criticise and criticise).
"We can monitor their progress and take away the abilities if necessary" Are you sure? Are you so sure that the guy will be so willing to let his powers be taken away? If you had a power, and you went from a hero to a villain, would you be such a good boy and turn yourself in?
"We need to take away your abilities as you have been misuing them."
"Ok sir no problem."
Is this the scenario that is going to happen? If you think it is, bolts and nuts are a part of your brain.
forcan Says:
December 10th, 2008 2:14 AM
Well, I think the age-old saying sums up best:
Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely...
There is no "right" individual, who is the judge for "right" or "wrong" type of person to have it? And who can predict someone's future action if they receive extraordinary power?
About people with abilities to protect America against its enemies... Who protects them from those with abilities? And don't say that America is always right, and its enemies are always wrong, that's not the issue. The issue is people against people, may it be with power or without power.
That I think is the point why Peter, Angela and others are trying to prevent: If you start out with a few "chosen" ones to get the powers, and if just one of them are corrupted, then in the end you will have to give EVERYONE powers to create a balance so the corrupted ones cannot hold themselves above others.
Arthur's vision is to create a "balance" where everyone has power so no one is greater than others, but that won't change the world. You end up right back to the scenario of people killing each others, with power or without power.
That's just something to think about...
Super Will Says:
December 10th, 2008 12:48 AM
The only Heroes actually fighting to stop the release of the formula are Peter, Hiro, Angela, Matt and because they saw the future and what happens after its released. The rest of the heroes were simply caught in the crossfire or are fighting for other reasons like Claire just wants to stop villains and Sylar was motivated by questions about his family and past.
Arthur had a grand vision but his vision leads to the destruction of the world (as seen in the future episodes). Everyone getting powers is a bad idea because even if its used in moderation by Pinehearst the injection can still be leaked out to the streets. I also think the marines have the potential of being consumed by corruption ensued by having an ability; using the power for good isn't guaranteed. That's what this season is all about. Everyone that has a power isn't going to have the same views and that'll lead to conflict and later to the end of the world. Defeating Arthur was necessary because he didn't see what he was doing as something wrong or immoral, thats how villains function.
mark p. Says:
December 9th, 2008 11:21 PM
in the episode that arthur took peters powers he said he had no intention of giving the world powers. i think he wanted to be the only power in the world (with his super powered army of course) which would be why he wantwed sylar because he killed people with powers. the problem with the thought of everyone getting powers is there will be your super villains like arthur, angela, and sylar who will mobilize your regular powered people into a world war. powers arent the problem with this human desire to control others would be the downfall. i typed this on my blackjack 2 so sorry for errors
this is true Says:
December 9th, 2008 8:51 PM
i think the main reason this season may not be as good as other could be becuz season one was about discovery and having powers was myterious and new. but having the whole powers to anyone serum is cool but i think they could tone it down a bit. as for arthur i think they made him wayyyyyyyyy to powerful i mean he can take anyones ability away and abosorb them from a distance is a but much. they sould have given the him the haitian's power which by far is extremely powerful and not used as much as power absorbing as three character can already do or 2 character now
I say, Says:
December 9th, 2008 8:11 PM
I do believe this show sucks and it's witters are morons.
Actually what Hiro does is completely pointless or actually helps Arhur (which he have lost to all parts of the formula in addition to the catalyst). The Haitian and Peter kill Arhur.
Your analogy with America and the nuke is extremely naive actually most likely because the one witting it is extremely naive. To be kind.
There is no comparison.The Nuclear bomb is a total weapon that can be used by humans on very specific circumstances , it is certainly not affected by emotional problems , mental health issues and such .Armies who participate in wars , are humans , and since they as a weapon are unstable and many of them have difficulty adapting to society as veterans.
The one is is a total weapon that it's use is very specific , in the end it may end up serving the greater good , due to fear of Mutual annihilation. Instead of fear however there is also common understanding between powers who have nuclear capabilities because they can predict the actions of other countries.
If the nuke was inside a person , the fear would be much bigger ,the ability to predict and plan , much harder , and so would the problem , imagine terrorists with powers for example to use an americanocentric example for dummies.
In addition to that you made another mistake of megaton stupidity. You compared a private army controlled by two persons with such a thing as a country.
The issue is not simply of who is good or evil , as countries if it is in their interests they may force their armies to do pretty terrible things , though only few of them actually have such capability.
A private army is not only unpredictable , it does not have the duty to serve the interests , of the country it is a part of. It is not a part of a National democracy and it does not serve it's interests. And there are is not a proper foodchain , in the line of command as a result.
Now imagine if a private army had control of nukes instead of countries. Now that i am thinking about it such army if it was powerful enough could attempt to take a country by itself.
And we know how Violent revolution against democracies , or efficient working regimes works.
If one would assume that there would be no private army and the govermends of the world would get a hold of this technology there are the issue i said above , regarding the provlem of making the humans , the weapon. In your bizzaro land oh naive one there are no serial killers ,rapists ? Or are you going to play the naive escalation imagination thing. Let's imagine that the police force is always stronger than everyone else.
Still. my idea is that mutation that makes humans more efficient powerful ,etc is not a bad idea , if it is done with extreme moderation , and their is very small variety in the ability one may earn , and the technology does not exist to give to someone for example timetravel. Or even super strength for that matter. One first makes baby steps and then he wishes to unleash that on the world.
Though the show uses an even more stupid and simplistic possible explanation. Everyone get's powers and some powers are so catastrophic , and uncontrolable it will destroy the world.
my thoughts on the time-travel problems in the show are as follows:
i don't mind time travel in the show if it is done by accident.
for example at the end of season one where hiro accidently goes back to whenever it was or when he went to future accidently. it should always be something that people can't control. when they can control it it raises far too many questions such as why didn't arthur just use his time-travelling power to go back further and get the catalyst off of hirps mum on te first place and many other questions like that.
with regards to being able to inject abilities into anyone, it takes all ideas of fate out of the show
just a few things:
1. i think it would be great if Peter never gets his powers back and he just goes out of it. why not? he doesn't die, he doesn't get lost in time, he just goes off and has a normal life.
2. i still don't like where the show is at at the moment. i don't like all the talk about formulas and catalysts and injections and so on. in season one everyone just found out that they had abilities. that was the point of the show- Normal people with extraordinary abilities. now it seems that anyone can have abilities and it just cheapens the whole show, whereas in season 1 there was something mysterious with much deeper meaning behind it. this season has been far too mechanical.
though in the last episode there were many reasons to think that it was getting better. mainly of course the return of Sylar. (why did they mess with him so much just to have him back where he started?)
pete Says:
December 9th, 2008 5:29 PM
Mohinder thinks the formula will fix his new eczema/rage issues but leave the nifty aspects, i.e. super strength, agility, wall crawling, love machine stuff.
If you really want to start thinking too much about it (which I admit I do too all the time) then it seems clear to me that the best circumstance would be no powers for anyone. The fact that ANYONE can travel through time is simply too dangerous. I mean, think what would have happened if Sylar from season one had gotten Hiro's power?
The nuclear weapon example is viable. Sure, if it wasn't for the nuke we'd have more little wars. But that's better than snuffing out the whole human race/or some sicko despot getting so much power that folks get enslaved to his every whim.
Here's one question: Mohinder has said that everyone's genetics/body chemistry is different, hence everyone who takes the serum is going to wind up with a particular, semi-unique power. The marine became super strong, but he just as easily could have wound up with the puppet master power or the ability to manipulate probability or the ability to shoot fecal matter out of his ears or whatever. No way to predict. Now THAT sounds dangerous. He could have gotten the radiokinetic ability of Ted Spraque and nuked Pineheart right then and there!
Last night, I decided to start lowering my expectations and instead view Heroes as a really fun B-movie serial. Goofy plot twists, reversals, soap opera maneuvers and all. I think it was a pretty dumb episode, really. But I'm still stoked for next week.
jason Says:
December 9th, 2008 5:10 PM
Okay, this ties into a comment I made on another page. I read an article… I think it was actually the author behind the new “What If: Spiderman Back in Black” Comic; who said great tension isn’t a Great Hero vs Great Villain but Great Hero clashing with another Great Hero... two people who believe in "the good" but who disagree on the how and why.
It falls back too one of the premises of this volume… When a bad guy looks in the mirror, does he see a bad guy?
Arthur, depending on how you view his motives and his actions to carry out his motives. You may see him as a Hero…. Maybe you see him as a Villain. Fact: the actions Arthur is taking will bring about the end of human kind. Fact: Peter and Hiro have both been to the future and have seen this.
Is Arthur truly an Evil Villain… well that is highly debatable. What isn’t debatable is his actions would inevitably bring about the end. That’s what our Heroes fought against. In Arthurs mind he wasn’t the bad guy, but he was willing to do what it takes to insure the greater good. To a lot of people… this makes him a bad guy.
Character Philosophies aside, I personally feel that Arthur was just poorly written. Not who he was supposed to be, but how they made him come off. I like what they tried to do and make out of this character, I just feel that the execution was poor. Hell I think the execution revolving plenty of things this volume was done poorly.
Was it ever stated for sure that it can remove abilities? I always thought that it was Mohinder being confident in his abilities to reverse the effects once he knew how it worked.
Being that it needs a catalyst to even work at all, wouldn't it need some other sort of similar event to make it able to take them away? Perhaps with a completely working formula Mohinder can figure it out anyway, I guess.
Ignore this if it is already a fact that abilities can be removed via the formula ;)
In any event, the heroes are motivated by a future where the powers escape and get into the public one way or another. Seems like it gets out beyond the marines and 'trusted' individuals, and that is why Peter and company want it stopped, whether or not it sounds like a good idea for America at the time.
December 11th, 2008 5:19 AM
If everyone is special.. then no one is..
I wouldnt trust anyone else enough to grant them powers. There would be no end to how bad the situation can be csrewed up. and as we know Heroes is all about the Villains
December 11th, 2008 5:10 AM
how did arthur know hwere claire and hiro were?
yes, arthur can paint the future. but unless he painted a picture of hiro and claire holding a calender with the exact time and date on, he couldn't know when they were....duh!!!
December 11th, 2008 4:20 AM
So the Star Wars theme continues: Nathan who was a good guy has been turned over to the dark force. The Empire (which in the first two movies where the good guys) has turned evil and the heroes join the ex-bad guys since they where after all just opposing the good guys since they thought they where bad and so when the good guys turn bad the bad guys turn good. :-)
Even the useless character Jar-jar is there. Hiro is the fun guy who solves the case by luck or help and then he is tricked by the Villain once again.
Back to heroes:
Q1: what happened to Molly? Daycare? With Parkman moving about in the world and Mohinder working for Pinhearst? Maybe Pinehearst has a Day care center.
Q2: Elle being dead the future we saw can't happen since she was the mother of Sylars son?
Q3: Since no one "got/took" the catalyst when Arthur died, is it gone? or did Peter get all the powers? In that case he would have to be killed???
December 10th, 2008 10:39 PM
I think what someone said about hero vs hero being more exciting is were we are now. Nathan has taken control of his fathers operations. You think Peter had a hard time pulling the trigger on his father... now it's Nathan in the crosshairs. Who will be willing to shoot him. He's a good guy.... right..? I think this is where the conflict was heading all along.
btw... Arther knew when and where Hero was going to get the catalyst because he can draw the future... duh.
December 10th, 2008 2:26 PM
good and evil are relitive concepts. osama bin ladden in his minds eye iam sure thinks he's a good guy and the west are the evil ones sure dosen't he believe god is on his side. george bush in his minds eye iam sure he thinks he's a good and the east are the evil ones sure dosen't he believe god is on his side.
the writers turned the concept around on a penny, they were brave enough to do it but the concept works with all conflict. iam from ireland, it's a constant in irish politics, the people who join the IRA are they terrorists or freedom fighters. the british army are they terroroists or peacekeepers. the answer depends on who ever is asking at the question at the time.
December 10th, 2008 1:52 PM
Ah, hell, I was just glad to see Sylar back as a badass. He had two classic lines in this episode:
"Oh, cake."
"It does kind of tingle..."
Pure genius!
December 10th, 2008 1:48 PM
i don't think giving injections that randomly select powers in a genetic lottery for the host is a good thing, especially for military personnel.
all reality of our world and our current involvement in a war aside, giving powers to trained killing machines is not a good idea. period.
also, isn't there a worry that they would go rogue once they have the taste of this power? if absolute power corrupts absolutely, and i firmly believe it does, people given powers will become greedy. not everyone is bad. it's just like our main characters: you have the good, the bad, the morally grey.
i don't think it's a question of "if these people can have powers why can't these other people?" hiro and peter have seen the future when people have powers, and it's not pretty. there is a lot of corruption. why? because there are many people in this world who are inherently bad, and there are many people in this world who may be good people now, but when given this sort of power, could easily turn due to their own greed.
rogue government agents could trade the formula to hostile nations for their own personal gain. would you really want the terrorists in darfur to have super powers?
also, most street drugs begin with science and experimentation. LSD, ecstacy, methamphetamine. the formula could become another street drug. criminals could dilute the formula and sell it to people on the street. sure, the effects would be shorter lasting, but the thrill would be in finding out if every time you took the formula, would you get a different power? that sort of power could become addictive.
or, hell, they could just start selling it black-market style and pretty soon everyone has powers, and the balance between good and evil would become nonexistent.
without some sort of "good" power or control, villainy and crime would rise exponentially. cops would be flipped so easily. if you pit a cop against a criminal, and both of them have powers, what's the point?
there would be infinitely higher rates of violence, death, and criminal activity.
you can't just give the powers to a select few. that's putting too much stock in human kind, especially in the fictional realm of HEROES. there's always corruption. you can't tell me they found a handful of marines - good men who would never possibly betray anyone or harm someone without cause. you can't predict how someone will change, or react, or even act in the future. unless you're the oracle in THE MATRIX.
however, hiro and peter have both jumped into the future and seen what will happen. no one can predict it in the HEROES present, but two characters can definitely see the outcome, and if that's not enough to warrant stopping pinehearst from doling out powers, i don't know what is.
i think most of these posts regarding the faults in HEROES have merit, but this one is a bit ridiculous.
December 10th, 2008 1:27 PM
I'n gonna have to disagree with HeroesFanatic this time around. I don't see any "lack of continuity" with the heroes trying to stop the formula from leaking out.
Think how ****ed up this world is now, with all the dangerous, violent, and moronic people out there. Imagine a world where all of these people had abilities. There would be no world because chances are it would be destroyed or in ruin thanks to all the psychos running around with powers. And you actually think the heroes trying to prevent public power gaining is bad?
Besides, it was never shown any of them absolutely opposed the idea of anyone else having abilities. If they needed help and they found trustworthy people, I'm sure they'd like it if they had powers. But that's being selective, and being selective leads to arrogance, and arrogance leads to paranoia and greed, and the snowball just keeps on getting bigger with all the negatives qualities that would develop.
No, it's best that the heroes do stop this. Let nature (or whatever the hell gives these people their powers) dictate who gets them and who doesn't.
December 10th, 2008 1:23 PM
I agree with Arthur. I honestly did not see how the future was going to be so bad. In the beginning of the season Future Peter is talking about preventing all of this: the concentration camps and crazyness...YET...When Present Peter and Future Peter go to the future..all you see are Business Men flying to work..and things ok...WTF was Future Peter talking about...the only thing that was so bad about that Future was Future Claire..They could have showed the concentration camps and chaos to give us a visual picture of what exactly was going to happen. So technically Arthur was not going to allow anything to happen. Present Peter really had to stop nothing. They somewhat showed this when Hiro went to the future and saw the chaos...but that scene had no significance other than Ando killing him.
OH GOD PLEASE LOSE THE TIME TRAVELING...!!!!!!!
December 10th, 2008 12:40 PM
first off. this is the worst thread you have ever put on this site. (if you tihnk this then you don't understande heroes!!!)
just one question, How did Arthur know where (and when) Hiro and Claire where????????
December 10th, 2008 11:26 AM
heh heh eh heh hehe heh heh
FIRE! FIRE!
Flint and Meredith are cool!
December 10th, 2008 11:23 AM
Hey...its a TV show, and a good one. Just watch and enjoy! Stop complaining...
December 10th, 2008 5:00 AM
A select few DO have abilities.
It has to stay that way though. The point is that all those people were never meant to have abilities. If they did, the eclipse would've given everyone them. A few were chosen for a reason. The same reason you said that marines would be a good idea.
Arthur Petrelli and Future Nathan both thought what they were doing was the right thing, but like Peter said...they were wrong.
December 10th, 2008 4:34 AM
Being new to this season of Heroes, i just caught up last weekend with eps 00 to 11 and i cant believe all the crap i am hearing.
This show is Great, Sylars trying to be good and just saying fuckit was fantastic. All the storylines coming to a central point was good writing, just wait till you see it this way on DVD, it was the best superhero megamovie ive seen this year.
December 10th, 2008 3:11 AM
"Does anyone else feel like we've wasted the last three months of our lives watching a story line that never placed the world in danger?"
WTF? Does that also mean I wasted the last 3 months of my life tuning into this website? Get real, no one wasted any time, unless those who doesn't like to watch Heroes! Come on this season is great so far, unless for those brainless dogs who keep complaning that its too complicated-the storyline is dumb-tim kring is an idiot. Shut the hell up people, if you really do not like the storylines, just get the hell out and stop watching (not refering to this site, refering to those who criticise and criticise).
"We can monitor their progress and take away the abilities if necessary" Are you sure? Are you so sure that the guy will be so willing to let his powers be taken away? If you had a power, and you went from a hero to a villain, would you be such a good boy and turn yourself in?
"We need to take away your abilities as you have been misuing them."
"Ok sir no problem."
Is this the scenario that is going to happen? If you think it is, bolts and nuts are a part of your brain.
December 10th, 2008 2:14 AM
Well, I think the age-old saying sums up best:
Power corrupts, Absolute power corrupts absolutely...
There is no "right" individual, who is the judge for "right" or "wrong" type of person to have it? And who can predict someone's future action if they receive extraordinary power?
About people with abilities to protect America against its enemies... Who protects them from those with abilities? And don't say that America is always right, and its enemies are always wrong, that's not the issue. The issue is people against people, may it be with power or without power.
That I think is the point why Peter, Angela and others are trying to prevent: If you start out with a few "chosen" ones to get the powers, and if just one of them are corrupted, then in the end you will have to give EVERYONE powers to create a balance so the corrupted ones cannot hold themselves above others.
Arthur's vision is to create a "balance" where everyone has power so no one is greater than others, but that won't change the world. You end up right back to the scenario of people killing each others, with power or without power.
That's just something to think about...
December 10th, 2008 12:48 AM
The only Heroes actually fighting to stop the release of the formula are Peter, Hiro, Angela, Matt and because they saw the future and what happens after its released. The rest of the heroes were simply caught in the crossfire or are fighting for other reasons like Claire just wants to stop villains and Sylar was motivated by questions about his family and past.
Arthur had a grand vision but his vision leads to the destruction of the world (as seen in the future episodes). Everyone getting powers is a bad idea because even if its used in moderation by Pinehearst the injection can still be leaked out to the streets. I also think the marines have the potential of being consumed by corruption ensued by having an ability; using the power for good isn't guaranteed. That's what this season is all about. Everyone that has a power isn't going to have the same views and that'll lead to conflict and later to the end of the world. Defeating Arthur was necessary because he didn't see what he was doing as something wrong or immoral, thats how villains function.
December 9th, 2008 11:21 PM
in the episode that arthur took peters powers he said he had no intention of giving the world powers. i think he wanted to be the only power in the world (with his super powered army of course) which would be why he wantwed sylar because he killed people with powers. the problem with the thought of everyone getting powers is there will be your super villains like arthur, angela, and sylar who will mobilize your regular powered people into a world war. powers arent the problem with this human desire to control others would be the downfall. i typed this on my blackjack 2 so sorry for errors
December 9th, 2008 8:51 PM
i think the main reason this season may not be as good as other could be becuz season one was about discovery and having powers was myterious and new. but having the whole powers to anyone serum is cool but i think they could tone it down a bit. as for arthur i think they made him wayyyyyyyyy to powerful i mean he can take anyones ability away and abosorb them from a distance is a but much. they sould have given the him the haitian's power which by far is extremely powerful and not used as much as power absorbing as three character can already do or 2 character now
December 9th, 2008 8:11 PM
I do believe this show sucks and it's witters are morons.
Actually what Hiro does is completely pointless or actually helps Arhur (which he have lost to all parts of the formula in addition to the catalyst). The Haitian and Peter kill Arhur.
Your analogy with America and the nuke is extremely naive actually most likely because the one witting it is extremely naive. To be kind.
There is no comparison.The Nuclear bomb is a total weapon that can be used by humans on very specific circumstances , it is certainly not affected by emotional problems , mental health issues and such .Armies who participate in wars , are humans , and since they as a weapon are unstable and many of them have difficulty adapting to society as veterans.
The one is is a total weapon that it's use is very specific , in the end it may end up serving the greater good , due to fear of Mutual annihilation. Instead of fear however there is also common understanding between powers who have nuclear capabilities because they can predict the actions of other countries.
If the nuke was inside a person , the fear would be much bigger ,the ability to predict and plan , much harder , and so would the problem , imagine terrorists with powers for example to use an americanocentric example for dummies.
In addition to that you made another mistake of megaton stupidity. You compared a private army controlled by two persons with such a thing as a country.
The issue is not simply of who is good or evil , as countries if it is in their interests they may force their armies to do pretty terrible things , though only few of them actually have such capability.
A private army is not only unpredictable , it does not have the duty to serve the interests , of the country it is a part of. It is not a part of a National democracy and it does not serve it's interests. And there are is not a proper foodchain , in the line of command as a result.
Now imagine if a private army had control of nukes instead of countries. Now that i am thinking about it such army if it was powerful enough could attempt to take a country by itself.
And we know how Violent revolution against democracies , or efficient working regimes works.
If one would assume that there would be no private army and the govermends of the world would get a hold of this technology there are the issue i said above , regarding the provlem of making the humans , the weapon. In your bizzaro land oh naive one there are no serial killers ,rapists ? Or are you going to play the naive escalation imagination thing. Let's imagine that the police force is always stronger than everyone else.
Still. my idea is that mutation that makes humans more efficient powerful ,etc is not a bad idea , if it is done with extreme moderation , and their is very small variety in the ability one may earn , and the technology does not exist to give to someone for example timetravel. Or even super strength for that matter. One first makes baby steps and then he wishes to unleash that on the world.
Though the show uses an even more stupid and simplistic possible explanation. Everyone get's powers and some powers are so catastrophic , and uncontrolable it will destroy the world.
Still they did not bother to explain that well.
December 9th, 2008 5:38 PM
my thoughts on the time-travel problems in the show are as follows:
i don't mind time travel in the show if it is done by accident.
for example at the end of season one where hiro accidently goes back to whenever it was or when he went to future accidently. it should always be something that people can't control. when they can control it it raises far too many questions such as why didn't arthur just use his time-travelling power to go back further and get the catalyst off of hirps mum on te first place and many other questions like that.
with regards to being able to inject abilities into anyone, it takes all ideas of fate out of the show
December 9th, 2008 5:31 PM
just a few things:
1. i think it would be great if Peter never gets his powers back and he just goes out of it. why not? he doesn't die, he doesn't get lost in time, he just goes off and has a normal life.
2. i still don't like where the show is at at the moment. i don't like all the talk about formulas and catalysts and injections and so on. in season one everyone just found out that they had abilities. that was the point of the show- Normal people with extraordinary abilities. now it seems that anyone can have abilities and it just cheapens the whole show, whereas in season 1 there was something mysterious with much deeper meaning behind it. this season has been far too mechanical.
though in the last episode there were many reasons to think that it was getting better. mainly of course the return of Sylar. (why did they mess with him so much just to have him back where he started?)
December 9th, 2008 5:29 PM
Mohinder thinks the formula will fix his new eczema/rage issues but leave the nifty aspects, i.e. super strength, agility, wall crawling, love machine stuff.
If you really want to start thinking too much about it (which I admit I do too all the time) then it seems clear to me that the best circumstance would be no powers for anyone. The fact that ANYONE can travel through time is simply too dangerous. I mean, think what would have happened if Sylar from season one had gotten Hiro's power?
The nuclear weapon example is viable. Sure, if it wasn't for the nuke we'd have more little wars. But that's better than snuffing out the whole human race/or some sicko despot getting so much power that folks get enslaved to his every whim.
Here's one question: Mohinder has said that everyone's genetics/body chemistry is different, hence everyone who takes the serum is going to wind up with a particular, semi-unique power. The marine became super strong, but he just as easily could have wound up with the puppet master power or the ability to manipulate probability or the ability to shoot fecal matter out of his ears or whatever. No way to predict. Now THAT sounds dangerous. He could have gotten the radiokinetic ability of Ted Spraque and nuked Pineheart right then and there!
Last night, I decided to start lowering my expectations and instead view Heroes as a really fun B-movie serial. Goofy plot twists, reversals, soap opera maneuvers and all. I think it was a pretty dumb episode, really. But I'm still stoked for next week.
December 9th, 2008 5:10 PM
Okay, this ties into a comment I made on another page. I read an article… I think it was actually the author behind the new “What If: Spiderman Back in Black” Comic; who said great tension isn’t a Great Hero vs Great Villain but Great Hero clashing with another Great Hero... two people who believe in "the good" but who disagree on the how and why.
It falls back too one of the premises of this volume… When a bad guy looks in the mirror, does he see a bad guy?
Arthur, depending on how you view his motives and his actions to carry out his motives. You may see him as a Hero…. Maybe you see him as a Villain. Fact: the actions Arthur is taking will bring about the end of human kind. Fact: Peter and Hiro have both been to the future and have seen this.
Is Arthur truly an Evil Villain… well that is highly debatable. What isn’t debatable is his actions would inevitably bring about the end. That’s what our Heroes fought against. In Arthurs mind he wasn’t the bad guy, but he was willing to do what it takes to insure the greater good. To a lot of people… this makes him a bad guy.
Character Philosophies aside, I personally feel that Arthur was just poorly written. Not who he was supposed to be, but how they made him come off. I like what they tried to do and make out of this character, I just feel that the execution was poor. Hell I think the execution revolving plenty of things this volume was done poorly.
Either way, that’s my take on the character.
December 9th, 2008 4:44 PM
Was it ever stated for sure that it can remove abilities? I always thought that it was Mohinder being confident in his abilities to reverse the effects once he knew how it worked.
Being that it needs a catalyst to even work at all, wouldn't it need some other sort of similar event to make it able to take them away? Perhaps with a completely working formula Mohinder can figure it out anyway, I guess.
Ignore this if it is already a fact that abilities can be removed via the formula ;)
In any event, the heroes are motivated by a future where the powers escape and get into the public one way or another. Seems like it gets out beyond the marines and 'trusted' individuals, and that is why Peter and company want it stopped, whether or not it sounds like a good idea for America at the time.
My take, anyway!